#anti the showrunners too a bit tbh

[glitteringaglarond]

You can feel free to ignore this if you would like, but you mentioned in that conversation you were having about whether the LOTR movies are well written or not that nothing make you angrier than what Peter Jackson did to Faramir.

So I was wondering - do you hate that more than what Amazon is doing with their show (which as your anti rop tag indicates, you rather dislike)

Hey anon! Thanks for the ask!

To answer your question, I do hate what PJ did to Faramir more than what Amazon is doing to the Second Age, if only because I love Faramir more than I love Galadriel or the second age in general.

But it actually goes a little bit deeper than the starting point of affection I have for either character, and that revolves around expectations.

in general, when it comes to entertainment, very few things make me more upset than wasted potential. I see it time and time again in movies and in tv shows, and every single time it happens it makes me genuinely upset because I can SEE the potential for greatness... only for the result to be lesser than what it might have been if it was just bad simply BECAUSE of that potential.

So the Faramir thing? I had such high hopes for it. I was only nine when I saw The Two Towers in theaters for the first time, but based on how much I loved the first movie I was unbelievably excited to see how they would portray Faramir. My biggest concern was that he would not have black hair, since Boromir also did not have black hair. So to say I was deeply disappointed is an understatement.

And to this day, I'm upset because the quality of those movies is so high that if they HAD done justice to Faramir, it would have been superb in every way. TBH this is probably what spawned my general tendency to get so upset by wasted potential.

But with Amazon's show? There was never any potential.

I hoped when it was first announced that maybe it would be good, but everything new that I learned about it made it clear to me that it never had the potential to be good, and the first trailer for the show confirmed that for me. i'm less upset by the events of the actual show than I am by Amazon's actions and the efforts of the showrunners and the shill media to smear the name of JRRT, bash Christopher, and hide behind their diverse cast so that they could insult anybody who had any issue with the show by saying "you're just racist", even though 99% of the criticism has nothing to do with that.

Is Amazon's show polluting the lore? Yes. Is it clearly made with absolutely zero respect for the source material? Yes. Is its portrayals of... any and every character facepalmable at best (POLITICALLY AMBITIOUS ELROND??? DAFUQ???) and offensive at worst (Galadriel, who is known for her wisdom and the fact that Sauron could not trick her... is an idiot who is easily fooled by Sauron???). Also yes. Is its efforts at diversity actually more offensive than having no diversity at all (the "more dangerous, less wise" elf is the black one? And he's the ONLY black elf? Where are the other black elves? and why does he get a slavery arc? is the prime example). Yes again.

But there is no potential that it was ever going to be anything but bad. The only wasted potential I see is a few of the cast members are way too good for the slog they're forced to wade through. The show is no better, no more respectful, and no more competently made than I really expected.

But with Faramir? Not only do I love him more than the entirety of the second age and all the characters therein, but the movies are so excellent that there is enormous wasted potential in the fact that they did not do him justice. Like imagine those movies only without completely destroying the entire line of Stewards! Boromir was good until the TTT retcon, but if Denethor and Faramir had been written accurately??? it would have been breathtaking. And the fact that that did not happen makes me genuinely upset, on top of how upset I am over ruining Faramir (and Denethor) in the first place.

tl;dr

I hate what PJ did to Faramir more than what Amazon is doing to the second age because those movies had potential that they wasted, as opposed to Amazon not even having the potential to be anything but bad. Also because I love Faramir more.

[wolfwrenbrainrot]

Woah, this person expressed it so well, much better than I did tbh. I a hundred percent agree that being in a fandom should be about having fun, not jumping at each others throaths. Obviously, I’ve been a Star Wars fan for a long time, ever since I was a little girl, and toxicity has always been a part of it, unfortunately. I’d like to point out that if I was mean at the end, it was only directed at sabezras who have been acting all morally superior and hating on wolfwren, not their shippers as a whole.

I feel it’s important to clarify that because, yes, I see their dynamic as platonic, very sibling-like (I’m not calling it an “incestuous” ship, though, ‘cause it isn’t, not really). When I first watched Rebels, at the beggining I did think they would become a couple since Ezra had a crush on Sabine. However, as the show went on and they grew closer, to me it went away and, judging by what we’ve seen so far, I believe Filoni is going in this direction as well. My point is, if I’m right about this, it won’t be because of Wolfwren. It will be because the writers decided it made more sense for the characters. Wolfwren is not a “menace” to Sabezra and if y’all think it is, you need a reality check. There’s no way a sapphic ship will be prioritized over a straight one. That’s just not how Disney+ works. Especially not when the showrunner, as progressive as Dave must be in some areas, is neither a woman or sapphic. 

Wolfwren is the first ship that I’ve gotten a bit more invested than usual in the last few years and I’m excited to see all the great fan work being made. As a college student in my early twenties who’s been dealing with the good and the bad aspects of being independent for the first time in life, Star Wars as a whole is a escape from reality. This franchise is where I find comfort and I’m sure this is true for people of all ages in this fandom. So, I hope all of my wolfwren girlies can enjoy being in our delulu era without letting it be ruined by negativity. That being said, I hope saberzas do the same. 

As for wolfwren being toxic… yeah, no kidding lmao. I, too, had my phase of being outraged that people shipped something that wasn’t the best example of what a relationship should be like. In the sequels era, I was ferousciouly anti Reylo. I was a hypocrite then, ‘cause at the same time I was obsessed with Catradora (if you know, you know), but I do understand it feeling like it is “dangerous” to encourage a ship that envolves physicall violence, fighting and trying to kill each other. I won’t deny fiction do have an impact in how we perceive ourselves and our lives (especially when we’re younger), but I believe it applies more to scenarios closer to the real world, not so much to a non-canon ship consisting of two pretty women in opposite sides of a war who I happen to think stare at each other in a gay way while dueling with lightsabers. Star Wars have a lot of deep stuff, but it shoudn’t be taken as moral guide. In this universe, Anakin Skywalker can commit genocide, and still be a beloved character by most of the fandom (me included). In this universe, Kallus and Zeb ended up being good friends (and, depending on who you ask, lovers). So, honestly, I think it’s unfair to act like shipping wolfwren is some kind of sin. It’s just a bunch of sapphics having fun, enjoying their tension and dynamic. Besides, as I stated previously, I’m not even sure I want them to be canon, because an enemies to lovers ship needes development, execution. It’s all about the journey, tha change. And I don’t know if I want Shin to be redeemed. I don’t her backstory yet and, as we’ve seen with Maul, a sad life trajectory doesn’t necessarily mean redemption or getting a happy ending. I’m here for the ride. Maybe she’ll end up being the evilest evil bitch out there and I’ll love every second of it, just like I love seeing Vader, Thrawn, Maul and many others on screen. But maybe, she’ll have a proper redemption arc and after that, wolfwren will become an actual possibility. ‘Cause in fanfiction I can read the most deranged dynamic ever, but I don’t necessarily want that for Sabine in canon because it would require her to go against what she believes and become a villain or a morally dubious character and I don’t it for her. Either way, it won’t happen this season. It’s harmless fun, and if I want pretend that those two chaotic padawans are making out in that damn ship you can bet I will 'cause it makes me happy. That's all I have left to say about it.

this whole argument is pointless 'cause most wolfwrens i see are aware that shin and sabine won't REALLY get together by the end of this season (and, dare i say, ever). and speaking solely for myself, I don't even WANT them to. I'd be happy if they pulled a kalluzeb (enemies to reluctant allies to friends), but I'm not getting my hopes up for that either. I know this franchise, I've been a fan of it since I was a little kid, and now I'm an adult who knows Lucasfilm won't give us sapphics anything better than valcinta on andor (and don't get me wrong, I loved them, but they aren't the protagonists of that story, while sabine is one of the main characters of this one). still, we'll keep consuming and producing content where shin and sabine are a physically/romantically involved.

oh, and for the sabezras out there who want to be assholes, I can be wrong, but I'm almost sure your "precious, healthy and pure" ship won't happen either. and it won't be because a bunch of sapphics online decided to ship sabine with shin hati.

[sanktyastag]

What you said about Aleksander not telling her what happened and why he left and I'll add to that not telling her how the fold was an accident etc is so blatantly a narrative mistep, there is no way to logically conclude "oh he didn't tell her because" what? it's entirely because her knowing those things would make her side with him or at the least understand his pov or worse make the whole "darkling is evil incarnate" while my kind is being murdered hunted and experimented on from 4 sides(cont)

[(cont) And it makes the fact that the hill these writers chose to die on is the fold which was accidental and then the only thing preventing even more atrocities to grisha used by the only person doing anything at all about it including their heroes who instead choose to support an absolutely corrupt monarchy who's done nothing but use an abuse them in numerous ways and then leave said minority even worse than they found them make even less sense than it already does.]

Oooh now here's a spicy take. I agree with you, anon, I feel like there's quite a bit of dissonance between how the show wants the characters to feel about the events that take place on screen, versus what it wants the audience to feel about those same events. Which wouldn't, necessarily, be a problem, except it never resolves the disparity between those two viewpoints, so we're left feeling disconnected from the goals of the protagonists.

I'm going to write an essay now, so it's going under a cut, lol.

The pitfall of SaB, I think, is that it often feels like the writers are trying to address and flesh out areas that the books themselves aren't really concerned with, whilst simultaneously staying true to the story as it's written on the page. And normally a show fleshing out an underdeveloped book concept would improve the story being told, except for the fact that the books are... almost wholly reliant on those things never being addressed in order for the events to take place the way that they do. The showrunners chose to engage with those dropped characters elements, so we now have conflict between the characters as they're presented to us, and the actual story being told.

Which is funny, because they had two different directions they could have expanded on Aleksander's character, and I feel like the show accidentally expanded on the wrong ones? I mean, I sure like what they had to say, but it doesn't really fit the story that they're trying to tell.

Because here's the thing. The books actually want Aleksander to be a sympathetic and well-intentioned character. The issue is that he's so disenfranchised with life that he's turned to extremism. He's caught up in this idea of saving his people, but "people" have become an abstract concept to him. He's looking at the long game so intently, he's blind to the real people in front of him who are suffering for his actions. And that's an interesting narrative to play with! It's so niche to the circumstances of having a character live through centuries of conflict, and distancing himself from the people he's trying to save as a defense mechanism to the endless trauma he's facing. Unfortunately, the books have no interest in engaging with that belief, so it's presented as an immutable fact of his character, rather than a flaw to be challenged, which renders it... much less interesting to read about.

So the weirdness lies within the show, then, expanding on the sympathetic aspects of Aleksander's character, instead of his flaws. They actually made him more involved with the lives of the Grisha he commands, they gave him more reason to attack Novokribirsk, by establishing Zlatan's army. They removed the layers of calculation and distance his book-self had, and made him very human and emotional, but then they continued to treat him as if he still had those book traits of being manipulative, ruthless, and amoral. Which is... disorienting.

Like, if they wanted to make him sympathetic while simultaneously demonizing his character, all they would have had to do was rearrange some scenes. Make it so that Aleksander's backstory is him explaining the creation of the fold to Alina. Throw the events into doubt by having it be told through an unreliable narrator (Aleksander himself), and bam, now it can be both backstory, and a way to manipulate a girl into feeling sorry for him. Same with the assassination attempt. Have him explain what happened and also have him use it as a way to engender trust with Alina, by instilling it with an us vs them agenda.

And then, just... let them have a full conversation. Instead of having Alina say that he's a monster beyond saving without ever discussing anything with him, give Aleksander a chance to explain, have Alina disagree with his methods, and have him force her to go along with them anyways. Bam. There's the story they wanted to tell, wrapped up in a neat little bow.

Of course, all that that fixes is the contradictions in their own story, not actually the quality of the story itself, imo. That's still a storyline that's only engaging with Aleksander's points at the most shallow, baseline level, which would allow them to tell that bland "radical freedom fighter is correct, but also burns down orphanages, so unfortunately we're going to have to side with the right-leaning centrist alternative" narrative that every corporation-run television show is so fond of these days.

But I mean. At least then I could consistently disagree with the story that's being told, instead of being left staring at my screen, trying to figure out if they want Aleksander to be redeemable or not, lol.

[forestwater87]

Every episode of Camp Camp ranked: A very (non)objective list

It's well past the time of year when Season 5 of Camp Camp would've dropped. I fully understand and support it not coming out; the crew's health and safety are much more important than a comfort show.

However . . . man, would it be nice to have some comfort right now.

So I'm reliving the entire series! I've been known to share with the world a whole bunch of Spicy Hot Takes, but I've never really sat down and talked about my feelings about the show as a whole. 

And what's the best way to do that? Well, just ask Jenny Nicholson: a numbered list! That is, here's the series ranked from worst episode to best, because I want to get the negativity out of the way early and focus on everything I love (and because people enjoy complaining, so let’s frontload all that). 

The takes will be hot. The feelings will be intense. The post, I'm assuming, will be largely unread.

Let's do it!

Oh and duh, there are spoilers. I tried to keep it pretty chill, but you’ll want to have watched the whole show or just not care about spoilers before going forward.

Also slashes in the middle of “naughty words” are meant to prevent this from being kept out of the main tags. Who knows if it’ll work? I don’t.

60. Who Peed the Lake? (Season 4, epis/sode 3)

Ah, good ol' Pi/ss Lake (or as @hopefullypessimistic84​ calls it because she's funnier than any of us will ever be, “Pis/s Fe/tish Dot Com”). Terrible, one of the few I’d consider nigh unwatchable. I actually kind of love this episode for being such great shorthand for "the absolute worst one."

Who signed off on an entire episode centered around Sherlock Holmes meets a bad om/o joke? Give me names and addresses: I just want to talk.

59. Reigny Day (Season 1, episode 6)

And nobody was surprised.

I'll admit I'm more willing to defend this episode than many people, but it's not . . . like, good. It seemed okay when there were only 11 other episodes to compare it to, but now that there have been so many bangers, this comes across as extremely weak. 

And let’s just say the Na/zi jokes hit a lot differently in 2020 than they did in the summer of 2016.

I’m overall happy with the direction the showrunners have moved Dolph’s character in, and I can’t totally blame them for using a kind of humor that was fairly common in the pre-Trump era, but yikes, this has aged like milk. And it wasn’t even very funny at the time, so it aged like milk that was already pretty bad to begin with.

58. Squirrel Camp (Season 4, episode 10)

This is a dumb one.

Not much else to say; it’s just kinda stupid and lame.

57. Fashion Victims (Season 4, episode 13)

I love Sasha, but this is filler. Which isn’t in itself a bad thing -- I have a couple episodes near the top that could reasonably be called filler, and a valid argument could easily be made that “filler episodes” don’t actually exist in a show with no plot -- but as much as I adore the Flower Scouts and enjoy the handful of good moments we get in this episode . . . who cares? Does anyone really give a sh/it about anything that happens here? Does anyone get their life from this one?

I didn’t think so.

56. Foreign Exchange Campers (Season 3, episode 3)

I know, I know, your Russian waifu came from this episode. Why do you think it’s so low on this list?

Okay, for real: this is . . . fine. It’s fine. It’s fine? I’m not mad at it, it just feels tonally incongruous and not very memorable beyond the fact that the fandom got really weird and kinda gross about Vera. But the episode itself? There’s some cute stuff with Neil and Nikki being jealous, but for the most part it’s a big hunk of white bread with some super mild white cheese that’s kinda soggy from sitting in a bag for too long and getting all condensation-y. 

That is to say: it’s fine.

ETA: Space Kid does say “fu/ck.” I can’t decide if that’s a point in the episode’s favor or against it.

This is the last of what I’d call the “bad” episodes. Everything after this ranges from mediocre to mind-blowingly amazing. But whatever our failing tier of Camp Camp episodes is, it stops right about here. 

Onto the good stuff!

55. Night of the Living Ill (Season 2 Halloween episode)

I keep switching this with “Eggs Benefits,” which probably means they should be tied. But whatever, this is my list and I am in charge and I’ve finally decided, after like 5 changes, that I like this one a little bit less.

It’s a fun Romero parody with nothing I’d call bad. Really this one’s only so low on the list because I think it’s kinda icky, and looking at those green snotty faces makes me queasy. If you think this is a bad reason to put it near the bottom of the list, then make your own post.

54. Cameron Campbell Can't Handle the Truth Serum (Season 4, episode 11)

I . . . don’t remember this at all. I initially had it a bit higher because I tend to love things with Campbell in them, but then I realized that nothing about this episode stuck in my brain even a little bit. 

Oh, this is the “Dolph has autism” episode that made everyone either extremely happy or really mad? Okay. I guess that’s the most remarkable thing about it. Neato.

Cam, I love you, but this was just not the best use of your sleazy charm.

53. Eggs Benefits (Season 2, episode 9)

This is one of those episodes with enough cute moments and good ideas to save it from being totally unmemorable, and I mostly enjoy rewatching. Platypus being a mom is a fabulous idea, and pairing the campers the way they did was mostly really interesting and fun.

The Preston-Nurf stuff takes it down several pretty significant notches, though. It’s what the kids would call problematic, and while I normally enjoy how the show doesn’t skew away from darker themes and jokes, it didn’t really fit either of their characters and just . . . isn’t fun to watch. It’s not especially funny, it’s not especially tragic, it’s just uncomfortable.

52. Camp Campbell Wants YOU! (Season 1, episode 0)

Honestly, this would be a lot higher if it was a full-length episode. It’s funny.

The next 5 or so episodes fall under the “cute but not very memorable” umbrella:

51. Nikki's Last Day on Earth (Season 3, episode 4)

I love the ensemble episodes, so this was always going to score higher than any of the single-character “meh” eps. I didn’t see the twist coming, though I know a lot of other fans did. Textbook example of “cute but not very memorable” -- the Platonic ideal of that concept.

50. The Candy Kingpin (Season 3, episode 9)

A clever idea that plays on Max’s worst characteristics and then calls him out for them, while also giving Dolph some much-needed character development. Unfortunately, I don’t feel like it really picks up until the last third of the episode, leaving the rest just kind of sitting there.

49. Campfire Tales (Season 4, episode 13)

Who doesn’t love campfire stories?

That’s all I got. They’re campfire stories.

ETA: OH SH/IT THIS ONE HAS THAT REALLY SCARY STORY! Where David’s all like . . . Slenderman’d. Fu/ck, I didn’t remember that until I was writing out my thoughts for #35 or so. That definitely elevates it, but I’m too tired to try and re-decide where this should go, so just tie it with “New Adventure!”

48. New Adventure! (Season 4, episode 4)

New trio! Focusing on these 3 was a definite risk, and I think it really paid off. While the “plot” itself isn’t anything special, there are a handful of really great side gags (hi, Dirty Kevin!!!!) and it’s fun to see these three interact. They all get some nice character beats. It’s a good time.

47. Something Fishy (Season 3, episode 8)

This might’ve hit me harder if I’d actually seen The Shape of Water, but the send-up works fine without having more than the seen-the-trailer level of understanding. Gwen dresses pretty, which I love; Max sucks, which I also love. What drags this one down is mostly feeling like the surreal aspects of the comedy go a bit too far into the “what the fu/ck am I looking at?” territory without really . . . making an actual joke beyond “look! Wacky!"

Why is David at the opera with a bird? Why??

46. City Survival (Season 3, episode 11)

Literally do not remember a single thing about this episode except David getting mugged and being called a “homeless twi/nk.” That should probably rank it lower on the list, but David being a fluttery mother hen saves it for me -- as does the fact that it leads directly into one of my favorite episodes, and the single best story arc of the series.

Next set of episodes is what I’m going to arbitrarily call “okay! but like the good kind of okay, not the bad kind.”

45. Bonjour Bonquisha (Season 2, episode 7)

Max and Sasha masterminding a scheme is really fun; their dynamic is great (though it won’t be fully realized until Season 4), and heartbroken David is so tragically cute it actually makes my heart explode out of my chest.

Also I can’t resist a good “3 kids in a trench coat” gag.

44. Anti-Social Network (Season 2, episode 2)

Neil is very relatable and I don’t have much else to say about this one. It’s fun to see an episode that more heavily focuses on our nerdy science boy, and Max and Neil teaming up to save Nikki was really charming and sweet and set my Makkiel ship out to sea.

43. A Camp Camp Christmas, or Whatever (Season 2 holiday episode)

Why does this episode have a musical number? It’s not good.

Okay, that was mean. This is fun and cute and Gwen wears a pretty purple sweatshirt and Space Kid gives her a present and it’s really sweet. But that musical number is an instant fast-forward for me, sorry.

42. Preston Goodplay's Good Play (Season 4, episode 7)

We get some Preston character development! Awesome!

It’s done in a really trippy and surreal way that totally fits his character and heightens the drama of the episode! Awesome!

David has an apparently-tragic history of being a French mime! Not a good call! 

Next tier: Some good sh/it! (Tbh, these could all be put in just about any order; they might as well be one massive tie.)

41. Cookin' Cookies (Season 2, episode 11)

I love the Flower Scouts. I love Dirty Kevin. I love the idea of accidentally starting a dru/g empire. Another weird, borderline experimental one focusing on side characters, and I think it works better than “New Adventure!” because the scale of the melodrama is just so over-the-top.

The fact that this is in the bottom 20 but I have nothing but good things to say about it illustrates how dang good this show is. It’s only getting better from here, folks!

40. Romeo & Juliet II: Love Resurrected (Season 1, episode 7)

Preston is a terrible playwright. This makes sense, because he’s like 11, but he’s the kind of hilariously bad I wish I’d been as a preteen, because his play is absolutely bonkers. Max fucking with David is great, Tabii vs. Bonquisha is great, Bonquisha in general is a giant amazonian goddess and I want to be swept up into her giant arms. Neil is . . . a robot, for some reason?

So much fun!

39. Camp Cool Kidz (Season 1, episode 4)

I don’t love Ered’s characterization in this one, but there are a lot of wacky hijinks in this episode that I think make it really enjoyable. Max’s wide-eyed revolutionary naïveté is a fun change from his usual dour pessimism, and Nikki’s loyalty to Ered is both very gay and very charming. Plus we get to learn a bit more about how the camp operates (and fails to operate), and it’s a nice way to better establish the campsite as its own setting.

(Definitely think “Cool” should’ve been spelled with a K though. But whatever, I don’t write for the show.)

38. Scout's Dishonor (Season 1, episode 3)

The birth of Neeancy! The introduction of the Flower and Wood Scouts! Neil saying “cu/nt” -- one of the first and only truly shocking uses of profanity in the entire show! ZUKO!

I don’t know if my fondness for this one is rooted mostly in nostalgia or if it was actually really fun, but I enjoyed the he/ll out of it. Not as highly-rated as some other episodes mostly because it doesn’t really do anything, character or story-wise, but not every episode needs to be a massive game-changer that drowns us in feels. Sometimes it’s enough to have a fun romp, and this is very that.

37. Ered Gets Her Cool Back (Season 3, episode 2)

Awww, Ered. I have a soft spot for her, because I love the archetype of a spoiled bit/ch clearly still figuring out how to be a person and have friends. You really get the sense of her as a teenager trying to sort her shi/t out in this episode, which I would love to see more of. Her interactions with Nerris are top-tier, and I like that it’s a continuation of how her character’s been softening since Season 1 into this kind of big-sister figure.

Also, all the female campers in this show are lesbians. I do not make the rules.

36. Attack of the Nurfs (Season 4, episode 2)

I feel like this is a pretty underrated episode. But then again, I feel like Nurf is a pretty underrated character, so maybe that’s just my own personal bias.

I really enjoyed all the different iterations of Nurf, and I think Blaine did a killer job giving each one its own personality and life. It’s a fun episode that plays hard with cartoon physics (a 3D printer printing people! I love it!) and has a surprisingly moving ending.

At least, that’s what I think. Most other people seem to find this one pretty forgettable. Again: make your own da/mn list. I liked it.

35. Mascot (Season 1, episode 2)

This entire episode is memorable for so many things, but a few of my favorites:

David is established as kind of a di/ck.

Platypus arrives and kicks all the as/s.

Quartermaster is the best.

Nerris, Harrison, and Space Kid all get little moments to show off how cute they are.

Neil and Nikki bonding.

This:

34. Quest to Sleepy Peak Peak (Season 2, episode 3)

I love watching Nerris and Harrison bicker, and Neil and Nikki fit really well into their group. It reminds me of being a kid, and of playing Dungeons & Dragons (as an adult, because I’m so cool), and of summer . . . which is a really good thing for this show. There are a lot of funny one-liners, and it’s just a good dang time.

33. Quartermaster Appreciation Day (Season 2, episode 6)

I don’t think this one is all that well-loved, but I thought it was funny. There are literally zero important plot or character moments, but it made me laugh a lot, and that’s all I need a Camp Camp episode to do. 

I love QM, and the more we learn about him, the more confused and disturbed we end up being. What a fu/cking champion.

32. Arrival of the Torso Takers (Season 3 Halloween episode)

I lowkey hated this one when it came out, because I knew the Daniel stans were going to be exhausting. And they kind of were? But looking back, it’s a great way to reintroduce this motherfu/cker. He’s a lot scarier than he was the last time around -- but also less competent, which is a great way to kick him in the proverbial ba/lls -- and while I wish it had a lot more Gwen in it, it’s a clever and creative Halloween episode. 

31. Operation: Charlie Tango Foxtrot (Season 3, episode 10)

Charlie . . . Tango . . . Foxtrot . . . CTF . . . OH! Capture the Flag! I never got that before. Oh, that’s neat. I love this show.

Listen, every time the writers decide to take a risk and do something bizarre and creative, I’m going to be here for it at least a little bit. An entire episode told from the POV of the Woodscouts, explaining how hard they failed in all directions? A great gag where everyone in Petrol’s story talks in grunts? The return of Jermy Fartz?! Fantastic. 

30. Panicked Room (Season 4, episode 16)

Listen. I’m a sucker for my trash grandpa; anything Campbell-centric is probably going to be pretty good (except #54), because he’s just one of the most consistently funny and engaging characters. Good times are had whenever this terrible man is on the screen, and giving him a romantic backstory? A tragic romantic backstory full of mistakes and emotional damage?? One where he waited 17 YEARS for the love of his life???

We have no choice but to stan.

29. Party Pooper (Season 4, episode 15)

I’m so predictable. If you put Gwen in something, I will be happy. If you make an entire episode about how Gwen is under-appreciated and overworked and just trying to do her best despite the circumstances, I will dedicate my firstborn child to you.

Anyway, this episode is really sweet, and I liked the unexpected direction the writers took her relationship with her dad. He seems like a nice guy, they seem like they have a nice relationship, and . . . well, an episode about how hard it is to be an adult millennial hit pretty hard. Plus this was just a really pretty episode -- and not just because Gwen was in so much of it! Seriously, that night sky was a thing of beauty.

Also if you say a fuc/king word about Max and that godda/mn dog I will choke you out with your own intestines. Few things are more hilariously, annoyingly ironic than the fact that the entire fandom ignored and failed to appreciate Gwen . . . in the episode all about how everyone ignores and fails to appreciate Gwen.

28. Culture Day (Season 3 holiday episode)

Now, would it be arrogant to point out that I had the idea for a Culture/Heritage Day back in September 2018? Yes, especially since I don’t think the writers ever read fanfiction and it has literally nothing to do with this episode. Will that stop me? He/ll no it will not! I am a creature of ego! Read my stuff! 

Anyway, this is a really fun look at Neil’s background, personality, and relationships. Max looking out for him is just . . . oh my god, I cannot, I’ve written like 30 of these and my brain is starting to melt, but these two are so cute. I love arrogant Neil, and I love protective Max, and I love QM and Gwen fuc/king over the Flower Scouts to save the day. Everything about this episode is lovely.

27. Cameron Campbell the Camp Campbell Camper (Season 3, episode 7)

This should not be ranked so high (even if these are all essentially tied). This is a dumb episode based on a really, really dumb premise. 

But . . . I don’t know what to tell you. “Samboy Kidwell,” Max realizing he and Campbell are disturbingly similar and not liking what his future could look like, David’s “I’m not mad, I’m disappointed” face . . . this episode happens to hit all of my favorite things. It had a really good balance of heavy-handed moralizing and goofs, it was part of the most graceful lead-up into a finale the show has ever had, and I’m just all about it. 

Excellent job, Samboy. Count Olaf would be proud of your disguise.

There ends the “some good sh/it” tier. We’re starting to get into the really excellent stuff now!

26. Parents' Day (Season 2, episode 12)

I know. You want this to be higher. I hear you.

Honestly I’m kind of shocked it’s this high; it’s my least favorite of the season finales so far, and I had to push past a lot of prejudice to actually rank this where I think it deserves to be, as opposed to somewhere in the like mid-40s. Mostly because it gave fuel to the raging inferno of “Max has terrible parents and David should adopt him” headcanons, which I’ve detailed my problems with extensively in the past (in a post that, statistically speaking, none of you have read).

But, trying to be objective: is this episode actually any good?

Well . . . yeah, it really is.

So much work was put into giving each of the campers families that make sense with their characters and bounce absurdly well off of them, ranging from wholesome and adorable (Nerris’s family) to quietly tragic (Harrison’s parents), and they’re all designed so well; they’re fun to look at and fun to watch interact with the kids and each other. (The only exception is Dolph’s dad, who is both kinda lame and misattributes the cause of the weird Na/zi thing because it did not come from Germany, I assure you. But things with Dolph are always a little off, and I don’t really know how you would give him a backstory that actually works with the character, so they were caught between a rock and a hard place there.)

The drama of David having to choose between the man he considers his father and the camp he considers his home is really touching, and him and Gwen choosing to take a sad camper out to get pizza instead of covering for their boss’s a/ss is such a beautiful moment for both of them that I can’t really blame the fandom for losing their mind over it. Campbell’s arrest leading into the arcs of the next two seasons was great as well, and the finale left us all with this weird sense of foreboding because we didn’t know what was going to happen next; it was the only finale that actually ended on something close to a cliffhanger, while still being satisfying enough to keep us all from melting down.

Plus, it’s funny. Carl and Candy are really funny and the idea of Neil and Nikki’s parents boning is funny in a horrible way. The joke about Quartersister is funny. It’s a good episode.

Should this be higher? Maybe, but I can’t bring myself to put it above the rest of these episodes. Again: make your own list.

25. Mind Freakers (Season 1, episode 10)

The episode that launched a thousand ships. Assuming those ships are all Harrison/Neil, anyway.

It’s hard to talk about these Season 1 episodes because they feel so classic. Like, what is there to say? You’ve all seen it a couple dozen times; I’ve seen it a couple dozen times. Harrison is a di/ck, Neil is possibly an even bigger di/ck, and magic may or may not be real. (Though spoilers for literally every season: yes, magic is definitely real.) It’s so much fun watching these two smug as/sholes snipe at each other in an almost literal playground hair-pulling way that could very easily be read as flirtation. 

And the fandom did most certainly read it that way, at least for a little while.

24. Gwen Gets a Job (Season 2, episode 8)

It’s Gwen. What, was I supposed to not put it this high?

This was the first Gwen-centric episode, and it absolutely slaps. She’s pushed to the breaking point and responds by being a cold-hearted BAMF, and it got her some pretty significant hate from fans but I don’t give a fu/ck, I loved it. We got to see her all dolled up, and then we got to see her all disheveled, and both of those looks were gorgeous. David gives her a tiny fragment of the love and validation she deserves (I don’t know if this is when gwenvid started taking off -- I think it wasn’t really until “Parents’ Day,” or even Season 3 -- but I ate that s/hit up).

Also, again: job hunting post-2008. It’s a bad time, y’all. Camp Camp gets it.

23. Follow the Leader (Season 4, episode 6)

Yeah, I was kind of surprised at how high this landed, too. I guess I’m just a sucker for unlikely companionships, and these three have a great chemistry. The combination of competitiveness, sass, and reluctant admiration make their interactions a lot of fun. Their motivation of doing petty errands for Campbell for the sake of getting at the Box of Illegal Contraband is a great framework too, with high enough stakes to justify all sorts of wacky shenanigans without causing actual anxiety.

I want to see these characters forced to spend more time together. Please, RT, make that happen.

22. Escape from Camp Campbell (Season 1, episode 1)

In terms of numbers, this feels so low, but considering everything from about #45 on is ranked as at least decent, this is actually a pretty high rating. There are 21 episodes I’d call better than this, but these decisions were all pretty painful.

This introduces us to everyone! The main trio, the counselors, Mr. Campbell; we get a snapshot of the major personalities running around the camp, the major points of conflict (Max vs. David, primarily), the major building blocks of future episodes, setting, and relationships . . . 

Again, I don’t know how much of my love for this episode is nostalgia -- there’s a lot of squeeing at familiar faces and gags; this is the first time David gets hit by a bus!!! -- but it was a fun and funny introduction to a series that’s ended up being so important to me, and I’m so grateful this wonderful, quirky little show with its wonderful and quirky little premiere. 

Of all the episodes, I really can’t look at this one objectively. It’s too important.

21. The Fun-Raiser (Season 3, episode 1)

David and Gwen scheming is my ki/nk. They very rarely scheme together, but every single time their teamwork makes the dream work (or, more frequently, makes the dream fail horribly and have disastrous consequences) my soul flies out of my body and takes to the stars, where I write another 500 first chapters to gwenvid fanfics I’ll probably never finish.

This is a great follow-up to “Parents’ Day,” where we immediately see the consequences of the previous season finale and what happens when the one adult in the camp disappears. Mr. Campbell was a terrible adult, true, but at least he was smart enough not to steal QM’s hook. Like . . . whose plan was this? It was so bad. These two are hilariously incompetent sometimes -- often when their bad ideas are feeding off of each other, actually, a la this and “Space Camp Was a Hoax” -- and watching them frantically try and keep all their balls in the air is so great. 

The ending is satisfying, too; a bit graphic, in keeping with a show that tends to keep the violence limited to periodic spurts of bloodshed 1-2 times a season and mostly pretty mild the rest of the time, but between Max stepping up and fixing everything while still being his shi/tty self to our dear dumba/ss counselors getting their dumb as/ses handed to them (deservedly so, if we’re being honest) . . . it’s such a great note to begin a new season on.

20. Journey to Spooky Island (Season 1, episode 5)

A classic.

We get to meet our spooky boy Jasper, we get to watch the comedy trio play off each other and continue to sketch out the general contours of their friendship, and we get to see the Quartermaster with a big purple dil/do for a hand. What’s not to love?

19. The Butterfinger Effect (Season 4, episode 17)

CONTROVERSIAL HOT TAKES! GET YOUR CONTROVERSIAL HOT TAKES HERE!

I’ve already gone into some pretty intense detail about why I think this one is actually really good and carries the theme of embracing change that everything about Season 4 was centered around, but none of y’all read that so here it is in short: this episode is super funny, almost all of the campers’ transformations work really well as extensions of their characters while still being strange and surprising, and the fact that Nurf creates all of these problems by trying to solve them is deliciously fun to watch in a karmic sort of way.

Or maybe it’s just because any Nurf-centric episode is going to rank pretty highly for me. That is also possible.

18. Space Camp Was a Hoax (Season 2, episode 10)

Our camp counselors being bad people: it’s my drug of choice.

We get Space Kid tripping balls in what might be one of the funniest sequences in the show, the entire camp coming together to try and pull off the stupidest, most impossible task (and kinda maybe almost nailing it???), and once again the fun of watching Gwen and David scramble to keep from getting caught in their boss’s shit/ty lies is so great. And Lindsay’s voice acting is absolutely killer, even more so than usual. 

17. Jermy Fartz (Season 2, episode 4)

I get the sense this might be a somewhat controversial one. 

I’ve written before about why I think this episode is a lot of fun, but it mostly boils down to two things: watching the campers try (and fail) to be nice to the most bully-able person on the entire planet, and the essential likeableness of Jermy. 

No, really.

I think a lot of people were put off by Jermy’s general grossness, because . . . my god is he disgusting, but he’s also polite and good-natured, and seems totally self aware of how difficult he is to be around, without letting it make him depressed. He’s cheerful in a weirdly downbeat way that’s impossible to understand until you see him in action. He’s so matter-of-fact about his own awfulness in a way that I found entirely endearing. I don’t think I’d want him at my camp, either, but get that kid to a good dermatologist and gastroenterologist, teach him some basic hygiene and social skills, and you’ll have quite a little gentleman there.

I do however find it hilarious that apparently David got the type of tree wrong when making fun of Jermy. Not only is that a great moment for reveling in David being an as/shole, but he didn’t even have the right wood. F/ucking idiot. I love him so much.

These last ones are my favorites! (Well, duh, that’s how this whole ranking thing works.) Maybe not perfect, but just really good and with limitless rewatch value.

16. St. Campbell's Day (Season 4 holiday episode)

They Grinch’d Camp Camp. Those brilliant bast/ards, they really pulled it off.

Ignoring the fact that David is truly frightening-looking for most of the episode, this is a great bookend to Season 4, following up on the theme established in the first episode about how David is a flawed and selfish human being despite trying his best not to be.

This is another one I was surprised to find so high on the list, but the more I thought about it the more I realizes how good it is. David being a jerk is always one of my favorite storylines, and the fact that the trouble comes from him trusting Mr. Campbell too little instead of too much is a nice twist on the usual formula. Gwen coming to help him out despite a blistering hangover gave me aggressive shipping feels, yes, obviously. 

Between a lot of really funny little gags like QM’s failed satanic ritual and the genuinely touching moral about the importance of spending time with the people you love, it’s just a really lovely episode that gets just the right amount of maudlin for the holiday season. 

15. Jasper Dies at the End (Season 2, episode 5)

I kept switching this and “Dial M for Jasper”; it was a really difficult decision to make, figuring out where these two belonged. I think in the end, while the John Dies at the End reference was very, very good, this one loses me a little bit by being told from David’s perspective. Now, normally the more David is in an episode the more I’ll be likely to love it (see my #1 for proof of that), but his blinders when it comes to the camp and Mr. Campbell result in a really funny story, but one without the same emotional heft as hearing about what happened from Jasper’s point of view.

That doesn’t mean it’s not perfect for what it needs to be: each Jasper episode builds on the previous ones, and having the same intensity of “Dial M for Jasper,” where we learn how he died and how his relationship with David fell apart, would be weird and heavy at this point. In Season 1 we just found out he’s a ghost (and eagle-eyed viewers realized he’d been a camper with David); in Season 2 we find out how David views their friendship and time at camp; and in Season 3 we get Jasper’s perspective. It’s an absolutely wonderful raising of the stakes (for lack of a better term), but the one that packs more of an emotional punch is going to rank a bit higher than the one that’s mostly just for laughs.

That being said: there are plenty of laughs in this one. Everyone -- Griffin, Miles, Travis, the animators -- nailed this one, and it gets funnier every time I watch it.

14. Camporee (Season 1, episode 11)

AKA the episode where Forest realized she was in love with Gwen. 

What a great idea for an episode, seriously. Every coming-of-age story has a talent show or a competition or a big game -- something where the kiddos can show off their improved skills and teamwork to beat their bullies or whatever. And this show has both kinds of bullies: the popular girly girls and the violent muscleheads. What a great moment to pull everyone together and show how friendship can help us accomplish anything!

Except . . . of course that’s not what happens. Of course they’re absolute garbage, and of course teamwork isn’t the answer. Gwen is the perfect foil for David here, being the anti-teamwork, anti-Camp-Campbell adult who can perfectly and effortlessly undermine David’s relentless optimism. David wants so badly for his campers to live in the same coming-of-age summer movie he did as a child, and their staunch refusal to do that leads to a really heartbreaking closer to the episode, as well as lead into the next one. Everything about this, from the challenges to the setup to Gwen shouting “we are winning this FUC/KING trophy!” is just gold.

13. David Gets Hard (Season 1, episode 9)

We have David. We have Nurf. We have Gwen. We have Max trying to be helpful in the shi/ttiest way possible.

We have all the makings of a da/mn good episode. And they deliver. Not a very emotionally intense or moving one, but so, so funny.

12. Dial M for Jasper (Season 3, episode 5)

This isn’t the fate any of us expected for Jasper, and it’s not the fate of a lot of people wanted. But godda/mn it, it worked. The constant bait-and-switch the episode keeps playing with, where you keep waiting for something really dramatic and tragic to happen . . . and then the reality is that Jasper died because Mr. Campbell was stupid and careless, and it was all just a horribly sad accident.

It’s anticlimactic, but in a way that suits the series, both as a comedic counterpoint to all the hype throughout the episode and as a way to establish that Cameron Campbell is a bad man first and foremost through selfishness and laziness, not Daniel-esque sinister evil. Jasper’s death was totally avoidable and totally Campbell’s fault, and while that’s sad, it also adds a weird sort of lightness to the episode. David didn’t do something terrible to kill his best friend, Jasper didn’t kill himself, and without having actively chosen to murder a child (well, not this time), the door remains open for fans accepting Campbell’s later pseudo-redemption. It was just an accident, and Jasper was “haunting” David to tell him that he was sorry for how their friendship ended. That’s really sweet, actually.

I think it’s the best way this reveal could’ve gone, and I’m so impressed with how they pulled it all off.

11. Into Town (Season 1, episode 8)

This might actually be the only flawless episode in the entire show. I mean, I call a lot of them flawless, and I mean that on an emotional level -- “I love this so much I cannot see anything wrong with it” -- but this one is a masterpiece of storytelling. All the technical jumbo I’m bad at, like planting and payoff and tension and all of that, is just perfect.

I feel like this is the kind of claim that needs to be backed up with a long-as/s essay full of citations and video clips and references to, like, Joseph Campbell or something, but this is my 49th entry in the list so I am not going to be doing that. Besides, I don’t think my English degree qualifies me to critique film/animation; I don’t even entirely know half the terms I’ve used to compliment this episode. Someone else please explain why this is such a good one.

10. The Quarter-Moon Convergence (Season 4, episode 5)

I’ve mentioned in other entries that the weird, surreal humor sometimes doesn’t work; it feels too much like being odd for its own sake, and sometimes gets so distracted in being surreal that it forgets to include anything funny or meaningful. 

This . . . is not one of those.

Putting Harrison and QM together is a stroke of genius; the two of them are literally the most magical beings in the entire show, and using them as the conveyance for this great Lovecraftian horror-comedy was such a good idea. I don’t know if we’ll ever see these two interact in another episode -- honestly, this felt a bit like lightning in a bottle, and I have a hard time imagining what could possibly bring them together again -- but if this is the only episode we get, it is such a fantastic one.

Harrison makes a really good everyman, despite his powers; he’s just the right amount of confident and insecure to pull off that wide-eyed apprentice to QM’s grizzled wise mentor. (The fact that QM is objectively a terrible mentor is beside the point.) I still don’t entirely know what the two of them accomplished, but it feels baffling and momentous, with the perfect amount of gravity to make things extremely tense all the way through to the end.

Also, I guess God is an octopus? That’s kinda cool. I like octopuses.

9. Camp Corp. (Season 3, episode 12)

Another unpopular opinion? Oh ho ho, I am so contrary! I am Not Like Other Fans! I am the Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way, refusing to have the same opinions of all you prepz.

I know this wasn’t the most well-loved episode, but I think it did a really great job tying together story threads woven throughout Season 3: Max’s selfishness leading to him hurting other people, his growing realization that he cares about his friends and the camp itself, the parallels between him and Mr. Campbell (and the fact that they both get this redemption moment in the finale). 

This is the most Max-centric season, focusing on his flaws and character growth, and they pulled it off in a really organic way that felt faithful to his character, touching without being too maudlin. The fact that his feelings about the camp are echoed in Gwen, Neil and Nikki, the other campers, and even Mr. Campbell drives home how important the camp -- and David -- are to this strange little family. 

Each season, Max reluctantly becomes a better person, without changing the fundamental core of who he is. That’s a really hard putt for the writers and Michael, and I’m blown away every finale by how they so consistently nail it.

8. Time Crapsules (Season 4, episode 18)

Gwen-centric? Check.

Max learning how to be a better person while still being the bratty kid we know and love? Check.

Looks at one of the most under-appreciated character dynamics in the entire show (i.e., Max and Gwen)? Checkity check-check-check.

I don’t really have much to say about this one, which I should: it was considered a pretty serious letdown to a lot of fans, and I’m not sure how to explain why I loved it so much. 

Comparing Max from “The Order of the Sparrow” to Max from this episode is wild. It’s not like 2 different characters: they’re still very obviously the same cynical, self-absorbed 10-year-old trying to survive summer camp. But he’s become a more considerate friend and decent version of that kid, and it’s great to watch. The moment where he and Gwen go too far and immediately regret snapping at each other is still painful (on my god, the VAs in this show, they’re so talented), Nikki and Neil both get nice subplots about how they’re also growing up, and the ending is fuc/king hilarious, perfectly breaking the tension from Campbell’s speech, which is both beautifully done and important to hear, especially if you’re in a period of uncomfortable transition (like, say, in your late 20s, or living through about 5 different national and global catastrophes).

And okay, I found that speech on the wiki for this episode and it made me deeply emotional, so here:

Here's the thing: you've got to take your failures and make something out of them. Take Camp Campbell for instance: a lot of poor decisions went into making this place what it is today. Sure, somewhere along the line it maybe strayed from its path, not living up to the camp it wanted to be. At some point, the camp realized that the camp would never reach the end of its path until it was ready or until it gave up. So, if the camp wanted to keep embezzling money and dealing with foreign powers, so be it! But, at some point, it didn't anymore. I never saw this coming, but I'm starting to think this camp is the best it's ever been.

If this is the last episode of Camp Camp we ever get -- and for at least a little while, it looks like it’s going to be -- I can’t think of a sweeter, funnier, and more lovely bittersweet note for this show to go out on.

7. The Lake Lilac Summer Social (Season 3, episode 6)

And again: No one was surprised. 

This is the longest non-finale episode of the show, and it uses that time perfectly. Rather than having some big emotional moments and character arcs -- which are great, don’t get me wrong -- the writers use the extended time to build a series of shenanigans as complicated as Gwen’s matchmaking web, and watching her try to set up a series of dominos (with David, for once, being the responsible, level-headed one) is almost as satisfying as the catastrophic results. 

Neil and Snake steal this episode, even from someone as in love with Gwen as I am, and for an episode that’s largely about making fun of shippers, there hasn’t been one that launched nearly as many ships as this. Neil/Snake? Tabii/Erin? Max/Nikki? GWENVID?! It’s all here, and I am here for it.

It was also fun to get a traditional episode setup in a very non-traditional show. I assume this means the beach and/or hot springs episode is forthcoming. (No, Pis/s Lake doesn’t count. Obviously it doesn’t count.)

6. Keep the Change (Season 4, episode 1)

Again, this is an episode I’ve said a lot about in the past -- and I was pretty uncharitable toward Season 3, which in retrospect was very unse/xy of me -- but I stand by a lot of my opinions then: this is a fu/cking great episode.

David is an as/shole, Max is an as/shole, Campbell is an as/shole. No one escapes the as/sholery. David schemes, Max catches him in the scheme, Campbell gets drunk and kind of gay . . . I’m 54 entries into this list and I don’t have much to say anymore: it’s just really good and fun and I love it.

5. Camp Loser Says What? (Season 4, episode 9)

This is another one I kind of hated when it came out, and again for fandom-related and personal-grudge reasons.

Fu/cking Daniel. That motherfu/cker. He shows up for 12 minutes and Tumblr bursts into flames. Every single time.

However, it’s really hard not to love this one. Daniel-as-Trump is a clever but subtle -- I mean, for this show’s definition of subtle -- allegory, and it’s amazing how much this slimy freak and the Woodscouts slot into it. David is a bise/xual disaster with the absolute worst taste in men, Dirty Kevin and Daniel are onscreen together for all of 2.5 seconds and the kevdan shippers lost their minds, and Xemug looks like Megamind for some weird reason.

My only minor complaint is that the ending is a bit anticlimactic, but it plays on Daniel’s stupidity and the value of teamwork, so it’s a very small nitpick in an episode that mostly works like gangbusters.

4. Cult Camp (Season 2, episode 1)

Duh. There’s a really good song and we’re introduced to a charismatic, sinister, and totally dumba/ss villain. What’s not to like?

I don’t think I even need to say anything about this episode. Season 2 started off the summer by throwing a lit firecracker directly at the viewer’s face, and ignoring the fact that we as a fandom proceeded to eat each other, it’s impossible not to get caught up in the episode’s wild energy.

And dude, that song. Fabulous. Fu/ck Daniel, but thank god he’s around to be such a prickly little pri/ck.

Now for the top 3: Literally perfect, wouldn’t change a single solitary thing.

3. After Hours (Season 4, episode 8)

I’m not sure anyone loved this episode as much as me. But this is my list, and I will put this up at the top if I want to and you cannot stop me.

It’s much easier in a lot of ways to talk about the episodes I hated than the ones I love this much. What do I say besides “literally everything about this fills me with joy and my life is better because it exists”? I don’t know. The counselors are my favorite characters, and between Gwen and QM having the weirdest bonding experience, Gwen getting to meet up with people who care about her silly fanfiction, Mr. Campbell being the trash grandpa of my dreams, David getting in way over his head . . . it’s the episode I always wanted, and they made it work so well.

Also, I just discovered that “Gwen Isn’t Your Mother So Stop Asking Her to Rinse Your Dishes” is an actual song and I am overwhelmed with delight. Here, I’m embedding it as well as linking because it’s so good:

God. This show. What the fu/ck even is up with this amazing, weird-as/s show.

2. The Order of the Sparrow (Season 1, episode 12)

Duh.

The entire first season is a great time (except “Reigny Day”), but it’s a pretty low-stakes kind of great time. There isn’t much in terms of emotional depth until the very end of “Camporee,” despite some hints at darker themes in one-off jokes and quick asides, so this episode comes a bit out of left field, tonally speaking.

But that’s not a bug, it’s a feature; if the show had been this overtly emotional from the outset, this finale wouldn’t hit as hard, and the rest of the season wouldn’t be as funny. 

This manages to serve as a capstone to the conflict of the first season, building on episodes like “Into Town” and “Escape from Camp Campbell” in a way that feels totally natural for both David and Max’s characters while revealing new sides of them. It works because it’s so unexpected, but it doesn’t come across as incongruous with their personalities. It’s the first and only time David swears in all 4 seasons, and that line -- I don’t even need to say it, you know exactly what I’m talking about -- still gives me chills.

Also, Gwen sings the camp theme song. Impossible not to cherish.

1. The Forest (Season 4, episode 12)

I’m not sure if this one is a surprise or not. It might be the obvious first place, or it might be a bit of an oddball for some people.

I had a really hard time choosing between this and “The Order of the Sparrow”; I switched their places half a dozen times, and the difference in quality between the two is razor-thin. I think part of that is because it accomplishes a lot of what “Order of the Sparrow” does: puts David in a situation where he’s pushed to his absolute emotional and physical capacity, crushes every shred of hope he has left, and sees what he’s actually made of when you strip everything away. It’s much more dramatic this time around, but it’s the same basic concept.

And just like in the Season 1 finale, what we see is a man who’s determined to do good even when he isn’t rewarded for it, even when he’s actively punished for it. Who wants to love nature, and life, and make the world a better place -- despite his faults, his selfishness and thoughtlessness and anger, David proves that he is fundamentally kind. He’s not nearly as deludedly optimistic as he seems; he just refuses to stop trying.

Because somebody fuc/king has to.

I’ll admit, some of what puts this one in first place is that I’m a sucker for whump, and David really goes through the ringer. However, I also think it’s important to acknowledge the risk Joe Nicolosi took with writing this episode: it’s all centered around a single character, it’s darker and more viscerally bloody than any other episode in the show’s history, the art is focused on these grand sweeping backgrounds that must’ve taken forever to paint, and there’s very little talking in a show that runs 99% on clever dialogue. This could have so easily backfired -- and for some fans it did -- but it was brave and beautiful and breathtaking.

I’ve actually only watched this in full once. It’s really hard to get through; it’s just so intense and even disturbing. But if there’s one episode I'll remember for the rest of my life, even when I’m 80 years old and haven’t seen the show in years, it’ll be “The Forest.”

It’s funny how such a sharp departure from the format and style of the rest of the show somehow manages to perfectly capture the heart of it. Talk about a fuc/king achievement.

So what have we learned?

I don’t entirely know what the purpose of this whole exercise was. I think it was mostly to get myself a nice Camp Camp fix that came from something other than slogging through 20 different fanfic WIPs, and to remind myself of what a strange and fun ride the last 4 summers have been. 

I also wanted to take a moment to acknowledge what Camp Camp means to me. This show has been hugely important to me on a personal level: I met two of my best friends through this fandom, and I’ve never been more connected to a community or readers than I have with CC. I know I bi/tch about this fandom a lot, but it’s a big extended internet family, and I’m so happy to be a part of it. Going through all these episodes, getting the chance to ramble about the things I liked and the things I didn’t, was a great way to reconnect with a series and community that I love.

So . . . what have we learned?

1. Season 4 was all over the place.

Some of this has to be due to the sheer volume of episodes, but when I sat down and organized everything into tiers:

There isn’t a single category Season 4 doesn’t have at least one episode in. I was surprised to see how high a lot of them ended up; it really was the best and worst of the show so far.

For the fun of it, I decided to give a number to each placement -- 60 points for the #1 episode, 59 for #2, etc. -- and see how each season broke down. Because that’s that kind of thing I think is worthwhile, apparently. And . . .

2. Seasons 1 and 4 are really good, actually.

Well, I don’t think anyone’s surprised to see how well Season 1 stacked up; it was amazing. But I was surprised to see how much I ended up enjoying Seasons 3 and 4, when if you’d asked me before this little project, I would’ve said they were the most underwhelming. Maybe I messed up the numbers a bit -- I’m no mathmagician -- but not only are they all really close, but Season 4 was one of my favorites.

3. This entire show is really good, actually.

One thing that really struck me when I put it all together visually is how most of the episodes sit in the “good,” “really good,” or “amazing” categories. The amount of episodes that are memorable, fun, and/or emotionally resonant is crazy. I don’t now how many other tiny cult-hit web series can say the same, honestly, and all of the writers, animators, directors/producers/other people whose jobs I don’t really understand, and voice actors should be commended for their outstanding talent and hard work.

4. Thank you, Camp Camp.

It was a real pleasure to relive all of these episodes again and think about what they meant to me. It won’t be the last time I sit down and watch this show -- and it certainly won’t be the end of my being a shrieking fangirl over it -- but with this break, where we have to get through a blazing, extremely difficult summer without a new season to fawn over, it’s nice to stop and appreciate what a precious gem of a show this is.

I hope everyone involved with Rooster Teeth is taking a much-deserved rest and prioritizing their health and well-being. Thank you for creating something truly special, and I can’t wait to see what happens next.

[animalkingdom-an0nymous]

I'm new to the show so I know very little about the actors but reading all the mean stuff Ellen says about the show and her co-stars got me like 'wtf'.. it's also pretty unprofessional tbh and now I only hope they kill smurf off

It hasn't always been like this. Tensions actually didn't seem to rise until the third season when the boys began taking over, getting more screentime, and doing their own jobs. Seasons 1 and 2 were very Smurf-centric and I think she got comfortable with that. But I think she got a little TOO comfortable. To the point that she can't root for her own costars because she doesn't want them to surpass her in terms of "fame". It's a bit ridiculous and shows her level of selfishness, further proving that she doesn't want anyone to succeed if SHE feels they aren't worthy.

And then she screamed feminism and her cronies had a fucking field day tearing the boys apart on twitter. Ellen Barkin was one of my favorites for years, and now? I don't think I've ever been so anti-someone on a tv show. Bullies don't deserve screentime. Bullies don't deserve recognition. And if you are going to shit talk your costars, the SHOWRUNNER, and the actual tv show you star on... don't get mad when they eventually kill you off for being such an insufferable person to be around.

[thatsjustsupergirl]

The last few ep of 3B were a bit wonky pace-wise and also a bit cluttered, but damn that last episode was a payoff! everything I was hoping for (except Sam as a regular pbly). I did not expect that Winn storyline but it was beautifully executed. And Kara's plot resolution was really satisfying! And I'm so excited about J'onn next season? and Brainy?! (tbh weirdly I'm not sure about Alex's next arc but that's more of a me and how I relate to things) I'm so glad I'm this excited about next season!

I was surprised by how much I enjoyed the finale?! 3C kinda lost me emotionally for a while because they were trying so hard to cram all the plot development in there, but it paid off pretty well in the end.

(Quick note: Supergirl’s seasons tend to follow a three-act format. I have S3 broken down as 3A = 1-9, 3B = 10-17, and 3C = 18-23. This will probably be more clear when watched on Netflix vs. live with the hiatus gaps.)

Pacing is an issue this show has had since forever, but this season’s problem was mostly that it was too ambitious and juggling too many characters to give all the stories sufficient breathing room as time progressed – there were an average of 13 named speaking roles per episode, up from 10 last year. So, this paring down of cast that we saw in the finale? DESPERATELY NEEDED.

Winn’s story was done in an incredibly touching way that makes it very clear how much Jeremy is loved by the cast and crew, and I am excited to see where his time-travel adventures take him! Also really excited for what they’ve announced with J’onn – the lack of connection to the citizen pulse of National City has been an issue since S2, so getting to see him openly be J’onn J’onzz among the people should be cool. BRAINY IS A DELIGHT AND I AM SO READY FOR THIS, especially if they continue to use him and Kara to explore this idea of what it means to pass/not pass as human in a society that’s still kinda hostile to aliens. (Which, given that half the writers and some of the cast are vocally protesting the anti-immigration bullshit happening right now, I expect they will.)

Kara’s resolution was exactly what I’d expected since the start of the season, and it was satisfying to see her get there completely on her own. There are some things I wish had been prioritized or showcased a bit differently, but overall? Solid job of bringing Kara back around to her generally-optimistic self.

It seems like a lot of people didn’t recognize that Kara and Alex were going through parallel self-understanding struggles, but I was also really happy with Alex’s emotional arc for this season. It’s something that’s been in the works since very early in Season 1 and got shoved to the side when Hurricane 2B hit, so I’m glad we got to see her finish this journey of realizing that a) she needs to live for herself; and b) that she’s also allowed to want things for herself without feeling selfish or guilty about it.

tl;dr the showrunners managed to take the mess from S2 and bring everybody around to a reset position ready to move on and move forward, which was no small task, and they did a pretty darn good job of it.

[dragimal]

thoughts on Voltron s7

this is prolly old hat by now, but I still wanna throw my two cents to the wind. this is gonna get very rambly, and I’m gonna derail A LOT to air out other grievances I have w/ the show/fandom. a rant like this has been a long time coming-- the reception to s7 only pushed me to write this now. so beware, I guess. also I’m not rly tryin to Start Shit, so I’m slottin’ this under the cut

I think I should start at the beginning: I didn’t like Voltron for the first 3 seasons.

it was perfectly passable, but not.... exactly the kinda thrilling saga Tumblr made it out to be. all the hype put me under the impression that VLD was a deeply emotional/character-driven story much like ATLA-- I was sorely disappointed to find this wasn’t the case. instead, I found a typical space-mecha plot populated by pretty tropey characters-- certainly not bad, but not all that emotionally gripping either 

I actually grew p bitter over Voltron’s particular brand of popularity-- mainly the comparisons to ATLA, as if VLD was anywhere as deep and clever. I wasn’t mad that it was popular so much as it seemed popular for the wrong reasons

now I’m not saying that enjoying VLD is “childish” or whatever, I’m just saying that comparing VLD to ATLA is p damn insulting, imo. ATLA has a level of depth in plot, worldbuilding, themes, character arcs/interactions, etc. that’s incredibly impressive-- esp for a kid’s show. u just don’t get that depth from VLD-- and honestly, that’s just fine! I know I’m singing ATLA’s praises to the heavens here, but I’m also kinda sick of Tumblr trying to compare every damn thing to ATLA, as if every piece of media HAS to be another ATLA to be worthy of praise (like the whole “Zuko redemption arc” thing has been taken wayyyyy too far when critiquing villains...)

ATLA and VLD aren’t trying to accomplish the same things, so it’s kinda shitty to place those kinda expectations on the creators of VLD when they’re trying to do their own thing? like, I don’t expect Osomatsu-san-- a very stupid show I deeply adore-- to be the next FMA just b/c both shows have a focus on brotherly bonds; they’re clearly two separate things that I can enjoy for different reasons

anyways, to cut that ramble short, VLD just wasn’t my thing when I first started it. I’m not big on mechas, and I typically prefer pointed storylines over ‘adventure-of-the-week’ setups. not that VLD doesn’t have some underlying plot for the first couple seasons, but it takes a while to get past random villain fights and/or adventures every ep and condense it into a continuous plot thread. some ppl like that kinda thing, I just don’t. the reason I continued to watch it-- despite my misgivings-- is b/c I like watching things with friends. my bf has always liked VLD and wanted me to see it, so I enjoyed watching it with our audience of two

I’m glad this setup forced me to continue watching, or else I would have never reached the turning point-- episode 33 (s3): “The Legend Begins”

this was the point at which my feelings switched from “eh” to “oh... OH. OH SHIT.” I’d finally started to get INVESTED. I finally began to develop real attachments to the characters! I was finally eager to learn what happened next; finally perched at the edge of my seat in anticipation! VLD had finally found its footing and solidified its unique voice, and I couldn’t have been more proud!

yet, what did I hear from the fandom as this narrative transition began?

“the show has gone downhill, and it’s only getting worse!″, "[x] characters aren’t developing anymore” and/or “the showrunners HATE [x] character!”, etc. etc.

though I suppose it’s a bit simplistic to say the fandom as a whole thought this way; in reality, just a vocal subset of the fandom thought-- and continues to think-- this way

yes, patient reader, this is one of those conversations. because we really can’t have a proper fandom discussion anymore w/o getting into those topics, can we? god, if only

so I’ll stop beating around the bush: antis fucking hate the new seasons, mainly because:

1) a lot of antis love Lance for some reason? antis don’t like the fact that Lance isn’t, like, the entire damn focus of the show (calls for “black paladin Lance” galore....), so they don’t like the fact that other main characters play significant roles in the show. this has devolved into unfounded critique of Lance’s character development in the last few seasons, when in reality Lance has gotten SIGNIFICANT development from s4 onward (just like most every other character..). he’s gotten more confidant in his abilities and is less defensive of his character, he’s more cooperative w/ his teammates, and he’s learned to (usually) recognize when a situation requires a serious approach rather than nonchalance. like, as someone who doesn’t much like Lance, I think it says something that my feelings have advanced from, “jesus I can’t stand this guy, can he shut up for one goddamn second,” to, “nice, Lance is mostly bearable and sometimes charming, now.” this point bleeds into the next point--

2) a lot of antis LOVE klance-- or the ship Keith/Lance, for any random readers that don’t know the Voltron fandom. klantis-- as these particular antis have been dubbed-- hate ANY semblance of connection either of these characters have w/ other characters, b/c it threatens klance. Keith and Lance both canonically have strong connections to other specific characters (Keith to Shiro, and Lance to Allura), so these ships are the most threatening to klance

now, all stans/shippers have fans that are a bit too defensive, sure. I’m not saying that sheiths (Shiro/Keith shippers) or any other stans/shippers in VLD aren’t ever at fault. but antis always ALWAYS bring an insidious dimension to fandom wank in the form of-- for lack of a better term-- “social justice posturing”

I’m not claiming that discussions abt representation and sj issues in fandom aren’t important, but antis always take these sensitive issues and simply use them as ammo in what are typically giant ship wars. there’s no nuance, no room for different interpretations-- only black/white divisions of what is “valid”/”canon”/”acceptable”, which are then strategically warped in favor of what the antis of that particular fandom favor (which, in the case of VLD, is Lance/klance)

of course, not ALL VLD antis are specifically out to discredit just one ship, as evidenced by the proliferation anti-shaladins (those against shippers of Shiro w/ ANY of the paladins). BUT this is exactly where anti tactics are utilized in full-force, and where this petty ship war further devolves:

antis fucking HATE Shiro.

Shiro poses the biggest threat to klance (at least in terms of fandom, b/c Allura canonically poses a much bigger threat tbh), thus antis have steadily built a “case” against Shiro not only as a bad partner to Keith, but as a bad character in general. the more “reasonable” antis claim things like, “Shiro’s too mentally ‘broken’ to be with anyone!” “Shiro’s too old to be with anyone, he’s practically a grandpa!” and, “Shiro’s too much of a parental/guardian figure to consider any paladins as potential partners,” while more extreme antis have claimed that Shiro literally IS a pedophile, or straight-up dangerous due to his mental hang-ups

there is clearly a lot wrong here both canon-wise (Shiro has shown 0% confirmable attraction to any character in canon; everyone’s actual ages are vague at best, thus there are no exact age gaps to measure, etc.) and in terms of plain ethics (callin a guy w/ ptsd “too broken” fuckin WHAT). but this is what antis have devolved to-- dismissing Shiro’s mutual connections to his fellow paladins at best, then accusing him of straight-up horrific shit at worst. all in the name of protecting a ship. boy howdy.

(*SIDENOTE* I hypothesize that Allura doesn’t get nearly the same level of hate b/c mlm ships are favored in fandom, thus there are more sheith shippers than allurance (Allura/Lance) shippers to oppose klance. she may also be protected by Tumblr’s over-the-top glamorizing of any and every female character, but that’s a rlyyyy weird discussion that’s hard to quickly/accurately dissect, so I’ll just leave that particular hypothesis to the side..)

anyways, patient reader, let us return this tangent back to the original point: the general criticisms directed at s4 and onward. how do antis relate to this?

well, it’s real fuckin convenient that ppl suddenly started recognizing VLD’s writing/plot/etc. flaws when the show wasn’t catering quite AS much to Lance, or Lance/Keith interactions. real fuckin convenient ppl suddenly started criticizing Shiro as a character when said character’s relationship w/ Keith began to gain more focus and development. real fuckin convenient that ppl are finally recognizing that VLD isn’t as great as ATLA, when the last few seasons have gotten PRETTY DAMN CLOSE to ATLA’s level of emotional depth

so I’m bitter abt Voltron again. but rather than being bitter abt VLD being popular for the wrong reasons, I’m bitter that VLD’s flaws are finally being recognized for the wrong fucking reasons

and this is where it gets real fucking dangerous, b/c antis are dangerously persuasive to the general fandom public

since antis use sj language as ammunition for petty-ass shit, they can easily gain the attention of... god, I hate that I have to unironically use this term, but Tumblr “normies”. I literally have no better, simple term to describe somebody on Tumblr who hasn’t watched VLD (or simply hasn’t engaged in the fandom in a significant way), so please just roll w/ me here, for my own sanity. so Tumblr normies-- as those on Tumblr are prone to-- are vigilant in keeping up w/ sj issues across the board. this is good! it’s good to be aware of and critical of the content we consume..... until it’s. not.

I’m not the first to say that Tumblr has a very warped, very dangerous approach to sj activism. much like full-on antis, there is so much black/white thinking, lack of nuance, swift and unforgiving retribution for even slightly differing opinions, etc etc. it’s why so many ppl on Tumblr even ARE antis, b/c it’s rly just the fandom-offshoot of this mentality

but even beyond the most extreme “activists” of tumblr, anti’s sj language is dangerously appealing to even the chill normies-- nobody WANTS to support dangerous relationships or bad representation, after all! so they latch onto that rhetoric too, b/c when normies see antis' (usually unfounded) criticisms thrown around, they don’t know the show/fandom well enough to be able to verify those criticisms. and like, I get the appeal of it-- I’ve def made similar mistakes w/ unfamiliar fandoms as well, b/c I want to support a cause that seems just. it’s p natural to want to align w/ what we perceive as a just cause, esp when convinced by a persuasive speaker

thus, antis have gained a significant following of normies due to the simple fact that Tumblr normies DO care abt sj issues, but they DON’T care enough to research the show themselves to see what’s what

so, let me quickly recap the stage I’ve set for you here:

1) the fandom in general has given Voltron more credit than is due, and has subsequently placed ridiculous expectations on it. this has given Tumblr normies a false impression of VLD and its standards

2) antis are SUPREMELY protective of klance (and Lance in general), and have thrown around WILD accusations at any ships that threaten it, leading to--

3) antis throwing Shiro under the bus time and fucking time again.

4) by abusing sj language/tactics, antis appeal to Tumblr normies’ sense of duty, thus gain their approval in ganging up on whatever antis deem unjust in VLD-- whether it’s actually valid or not

so fuckin forgive me for being a bit skeptical when I heard rumors of “bury your gays” in Voltron from antis/normies, when these same ppl are actively throwing around accusations of pedophilia in the name of goddamn shipping

but I’ll fully admit, I passed judgement on this criticism a bit too quick, considering I hadn’t even seen the new season yet. it’s never good to blindly accept opinions purely on the basis that they bolster ur own assumptions, and I’m not immune to that charming trap (tho thankfully I’m not typically a vocal member fandom, so I was mostly just nodding along w/ my fellow shieths asdfg)

so finally, dear reader, we reach the actual point of this post: after seeing s7 for myself, what even ARE my opinions on it?

well. the handling of Adam and his relationship to Shiro............... wasn’t great. it was pretty fuckin terrible, actually. despite all I’ve said against antis, I agree w/ their general view that Adam’s relationship w/ Shiro (and his subsequent death) was shoddy, underdeveloped, and disrespectful to some degree. I’m personally not sure it’s worth the title of “bury your gays” for several different reasons, but I wouldn’t fault someone for calling it that, b/c there are definitely several other reasons that reinforce that trope. it’s worth discussing, and definitely worth voicing criticisms towards, esp in terms of Dreamworks’ “lgbt rep” advertising before s7′s release (which was absolutely scummy, there’s just no other word for it)

so if I agree w/ antis’ basal complaints in this instance, then why the hell am I even talking abt this? why am I putting so much effort into dissecting the fandom, only to essentially reach the same conclusion as those I fundamentally disagree with?

well, I suppose it’s all abt the framing.

I’m not gonna link the post b/c, again, I Don’t Wanna Start Shit, but most of y’all have prolly seen that one post that breaks down the history of the “bury your gays” trope, and how it was possibly utilized in VLD. it’s a p good argument in that respect-- I think it hits the main points of how/why Adam and his relationship w/ Shiro was just plain Bad

and to the untrained “normie” eye, that’s all it is. however, there is a cryptic framing present that reinforces anti talking points, which only someone involved in the fandom would recognize. 

(*SIDENOTE* I don’t mean to pick on SPECIFICALLY this post, I just think it’s a nice rundown of a few of the main rhetorical tactics used by antis. it’s certainly not a unique post in the fandom, but merely a good example of this brand of posts)

for one, this post forces an emotional distance between Shiro and the paladins. this post INSISTS that Shiro can ONLY be interpreted as a guardian character that can’t relate to the other paladins in any significant way due to age gaps and traumatic experience. THUS, according to antis, Adam was the only person that Shiro could have intimately discussed his problems w/ b/c they’re the same age and have a history. Adam's death removed this potential confidante, thus leaving Shiro to sort out his issues alone

while I agree that it would have been nice to see Shiro chat w/ a new character he has a history with (esp considering we rly haven’t gotten much backstory on Shiro yet), so much of this argument is simply false

I’ve already mentioned the bullshit that is the vague age gaps, but even if we were to take them into account, there ARE characters who are assumedly at or over Shiro’s age: Coran and Allura. and yeah, Coran is prolly not the best choice in terms of real emotional connection, but Allura? she could prolly fuckin relate. Shiro’s had his body and autonomy violently violated by the Galra, to the point that his original body is now destroyed; Allura has had her culture and people violently violated by the Galra, to the point the her original planet/culture is now destroyed. Shiro is/was a leader to the paladins, and takes their collective failures to heart as his personal failures to his team; Allura is a literal princess to her people, and takes their downfall as a personal reflection of her lack of ability to protect them. their situations obviously shouldn’t be 1:1 conflated, but to say they have no points of relation here is fuckin insulting

but since age gaps like this mean JACK SHIT when it comes simply developing emotional connections and mutual respect, we don’t even need to go so far as to match ages! this is evidenced by actual intimate interactions Shiro has had with the paladins!

the first one that comes to mind even involves antis’ favorite-- Lance! episode 45 (s5): “The White Lion” involved a moment where Shiro approached Lance on his own and opened up abt his mental health, saying he, “didn’t feel like himself.” now it could be argued that this was Shiro’s clone-- not Actual Shiro-- approaching Lance for help. tho I firmly believe that are still true parts of Shiro present in his clone, even if he’s not fully there. the clone is still protective of his team (before his mind is COMPLETELY hijacked, of course), and I believe any connections/loyalty/trust Shiro has towards the paladins is still true for the clone (even if this can, once again, be forcibly overridden). this moment is Shiro-- the part of Actual Shiro that’s present in his clone-- approaching a fellow teammate for help. of course, Lance doesn’t know exactly what to do in this situation, but he at least stays w/ Shiro for support

and then of course there are all the great moments Shiro has w/ Keith that antis want to forget abt. moments where Keith has laid down his health and safety for Shiro, moments where Keith has barred his soul to Shiro, moments where Keith has done everything in his power to reach out to a hurt and struggling Shiro.  moments where Keith has made it ABUNDANTLY fucking clear that he’s here to the bitter end, that he’ll NEVER give up on Shiro. it literally doesn’t fucking matter if u interpret these scenes as platonic or romantic, b/c the fact of the matter is that Shiro and Keith care DEEPLY abt each other in some shape or form. disregarding that is forcibly ignorant. also, we've now confirmed that Keith and Shiro do have a HISTORY back at the Garrison together before all this Voltron nonsense started (even if it isn’t necessarily a romantic history), so Keith also has that leg up

the subtle framing of Shiro as STRICTLY a “guardian” character is also a classic anti tactic, as it implies a sort of pseudo-pedophilic undertone to any Shiro/paladin ships, which is just.... gross and dishonest. yes, he’s canonically a leader to the paladins, and oftentimes takes on a guardian-type role, but once again, he also canonically opens up to other paladins on a mutually respectful/intimate level. there’s nothing in canon that would strictly suggest he’s ONLY a guardian figure-- “space dad” is a fandom interpretation in the same way that framing him as Keith’s lover is a fandom interpretation. neither is more or less 'canon', and it's petty to suggest otherwise

another weird point in that post is the insistence that Shiro is a “tragic gay character”, which is just..... not fucking true, first of all. he’s definitely suffered the most out of any main character, I agree, but he’s GETTING THROUGH IT. he’s been pulled through it by the paladins, and he’s learning to use his own strength to pull through as well. he’s so incredibly fuckin strong and it’s a fuckin shame that ppl don’t see how inspirational he is to those that may be struggling emotionally. plus, he's never suffered BECAUSE he's gay, nor has he ever had a damn HINT of queer-coding until Adam was shoehorned in (which is its own separate problem w/ the show, but it's not a "tragic gay" problem)

but beyond all that is an even more subtle insistence that Shiro has always been a beloved character to ALL in the fandom. antis’ underlying implication that, “hey normies, Shiro-- our beloved Space Dad-- has been given the shit end of the stick, and u should be mad abt it too!” 

as if antis haven’t spent the last several years shitting on Shiro at every turn, saying he’s got “scrambled egg brains” b/c of his ptsd, and other horrific shit. the fact that they can turn around to “defend Shiro’s honor” now that he’s *confirmed queer* (and, initially, confirmed less of a threat to klance due to Adam) and STILL be taken seriously is goddamn terrifying 

like I am literally seeing posts like this-- IN 20FUCKIN18-- that normies are taking at face value and reinforcing:

to any normies reading this: SHIRO AND KEITH AREN'T FUCKING RELATED!! racist antis insist that they have to be related b/c they're both Asian and the second half of their last names (Shirogane and Kogane, respectively) are similar. I'm literally so baffled over how this tactic is ever taken seriously, but who fuckin knows I guess. and if antis are trying to make a case for adoptive siblings, Keith canonically met Shiro by at LEAST his early/mid teens-- LONGGGG past the developmental age of youth where he might latch onto another person as a strictly non-romanceable relative, so. No. fandom is free to interpret Keith and Shiro’s relationship as brotherly, but to say that that is the STRICT and true 'canon' interpretation of their relationship is, once again, fuckin petty and dishonest

just. how fuckin DARE antis act like they give a SINGLE goddamn shit abt Shiro’s emotional needs and trauma after pullin this shit. how fuckin DARE antis misuse real sj issues to appeal to the lowest common denominator in normies, looking for fodder to fuel the flames of hate

so, if I may be so bold as to utilize one of antis' many battlecrys: this discussion does not exist in a vacuum. Adam's shoehorned relationship w/ Shiro is shitty and worth criticism, absolutely. but brushing aside the fandom history driving the resulting uproar-- as if ship wars aren't HUGELY influencing this backlash-- is SUPREMELY fuckin ignorant

antis latched onto Adam HARD when he was first announced, despite all the signs he'd be a side character at best, that he was stated clearly to be Shiro's ex, and having no context for his personality. Adam was antis' newest shield to their ship-- somebody to take Shiro's romantic potential away from Keith, thus leaving Keith open to Lance. Adam's death eliminated that shield, leaving antis reeling-- they couldn't just jump right back into hating Shiro after having showered his newly-christened gay ass w/ praise for all of the Tumblr normies to see. so, their anger was tactically redirected towards Adam's development

there is nothing shocking abt any of this tbh. all antis is the same, and they're all bitter assholes that are completely willing to abuse real sj issues for their own goals. plain and simple.

I don't rly have a proper ending for this. I'll just say that I like s7 a helluva lot, and Adam’s shitty development doesn’t rly phase me? not everyone feels that way, which is valid, I just don’t particularly give a shit abt Adam. I have hope for s8-- esp in terms of potential development for Shiro. since Shiro got such heavy focus in s6, it makes sense that he was pushed to the sidelines a bit this season to leave room for the other characters (Keith, Lance, Commander Holt + Earth stuff in general, etc.) to develop and shine. I've heard rumors that Adam did in fact have more development that was cut, which I'm honestly willing to believe b/c the development we got felt cut short, rather than simply planned that sparsely in the first place. my hope is that s8 will return some focus to Shiro, and possibly slot in some of these cut scenes to bolster a better backstory to their relationship? pure speculation tho, and it doesn't rly excuse Adam's treatment in s7, but it's worth considering

before I completely end off here, I just want to go on one last FINAL tangent: I'm so damn disappointed that everyone is sleeping on kexa (Keith/Acxa)??? if anything it poses MUCH more canon threat to BOTH klance and sheith purely b/c it's 'safely hetero' and b/c the show itself has hinted at potential feelings there (“She’s always been sweet on that one with the flippity hair,” and “Oh look Acxa, it’s your favorite paladin~”). like I haven't seen antis OR sheiths even mention this, it's baffling. the fact that it'll prolly be canon is bittersweet for me: bitter b/c DAMN I love sheith, and sweet b/c damn.... I'm rly diggin kexa....

so the moral of this post is: blease appreciate Keith's beautiful goth gf, she deserves love

thank u and goodbye

[thehandmaidstalehulu]

Now that you've finished binging 'The Handmaid's Tale' – the TV adaptation of Margaret Atwood's iconic 1985 dystopian novel – there's a few things you may need and/or want to know.

If you haven't finished the season yet, TURN BACK NOW. SPOILERS INCOMING.

Yes, Season Two is coming.

The book left things off pretty much exactly where the show did: with a fearless Offred / June (Elisabeth Moss) being bundled into the back of a black van, not knowing if she's being taken by the Eyes or Mayday, but not really caring either way. In the novel, we jump to the historical notes, which envisions a society some 200 years into the future speculating on a series of recorded tapes they have dubbed, 'The Handmaid's Tale'. We never find out what happened to Offred.

Now that you've finished binging 'The Handmaid's Tale' – the TV adaptation of Margaret Atwood's iconic 1985 dystopian novel – there's a few things you may need and/or want to know.

If you haven't finished the season yet, TURN BACK NOW. SPOILERS INCOMING.

Yes, Season Two is coming.

The book left things off pretty much exactly where the show did: with a fearless Offred / June (Elisabeth Moss) being bundled into the back of a black van, not knowing if she's being taken by the Eyes or Mayday, but not really caring either way. In the novel, we jump to the historical notes, which envisions a society some 200 years into the future speculating on a series of recorded tapes they have dubbed, 'The Handmaid's Tale'. We never find out what happened to Offred.

The series, however, is likely to answer that all-important question: what happened next?Showrunner Bruce Miller told The Hollywood Reporter that he's been working with Attwood closely to figure out what that looks like.

"We had lots of discussions about what would happen to the characters after Season One in small and big ways. We've been talking about it ever since the middle of Season One," he said. "There are things Margaret thought about a lot because over the years, and that's one of the biggest questions she's been asked, is what happens next to these characters. So it wasn't a question that I was bringing up to her for the first time ... We have had and continue to have extensive, deep and really fun discussions about what would happen in the future, what happens next."

And it looks like Emily / Ofsteven (formerly Ofglen) survived her joyride.

The last we see of Emily (Alexis Bledel), she had stolen a car and run over a guard. In the novel, Emily hangs herself before the Eyes can get her, but in the show, it's not clear what happens to her. Is her status as Handmaid (and therefore owner of working reproductive organs) enough to spare her capital punishment?

The good news is: it's basically been confirmed she survives. Bledel has been confirmed for Season 2 and upgraded from "guest star" to "series regular", but whether she's been shipped to the colonies or forced to undergo some other horrific surgery is to be seen.

June's hitherto unseen mum will almost definitely be making an appearance.

June's mum was a major character in the book, albeit only through June's flashbacks. She was an active feminist in the time before Gillead, yet was derided by her daughter for being 'too radical'; June mistakenly believed that men and women were equal and that 'the fight' was done, while her mum knew otherwise.

Miller basically confirmed she's going to be a big part of the show in the future, whether that's Season 2 or beyond.

"June's memories of her mother and her activism are very vibrant in the book, so we've been talking about her from day one of Season One, and it just didn't seem like enough time to do her justice," he told THR. "In Season Two, we mention her a little bit, but we just don't want to short-shrift her story. It's a story we want to tell — she was one of the most memorable characters."

Season 2 is going to be monumentally more fucked up than Season 1.

Season 1 was already dark as hell. Imprisonment, rape, mutilation, abuse, unimaginable violence – it's one of the darkest tales to ever air on television. And yet, Season 2 doesn't look like it's getting any sunnier, despite the hopeful note it ended on.

"Wait till you see what's coming!" Miller told The Pool, shortly after the first episode aired. "It's going to get worse. Season two is going to be bad, too, really dark."

He later told the New York Times:

"Mayday is not the Handmaid rescue organisation – it's the anti-Gilead organisation. And the anti-Gilead organisation is not necessarily a friend to June or a friend to Handmaids. If I was going to try to hurt Gilead, the first thing I might do is kill all the Handmaids. You’re trying to weaken the state."

Christ.

There's a secret vagina hidden in the Aunts' collars.

And yes, this information IS marked 'vital'.

Costume designer Ane Crabtree put a whole lot of thought into the costumes that viewers would never pick up on (at least during the first viewing), but the best by far is the secret, inverted vagina in the Aunts' collars.

"If you look subtly, you'll see that," she told Vanity Fair. "It's sort of my way of saying, 'Fuck you'. I have to design this in a way to oppress women, but I can give them their own pleasure – whether it's metaphorical of real, physically. I had to oppress women, but I wanted to free them, mentally, through design."

And if you look closely, you'll see the Handmaids aren't wearing shoelaces.

“I gave the Handmaids lace-up boots that were modelled after a pair I have, but then I took away their laces so that they can’t even consider killing themselves,” said Crabtree. “We sewed the grommets down, and then on top of that we did a boot cover, so they can’t even be reminded that they used to have laces. It’s just a sleek cover. That was a way of oppressing them mentally.”

Somebody had to explain to Margaret Atwood who a "carpet muncher" was.

The term makes an appearance in the second episode. It's apparently the one question Atwood asked about the entire episode.

"She asked, 'What's a carpet muncher?'" executive producer Reed Morano told THR. "One of the writer's assistants had to call Margaret and explain it. I wish I could have heard that."

Same, tbh.

[kinetic-elaboration]

May 25: The Finale

So here's how I stand with The 100 now that the finale has aired.

I still haven't watched anything past 4x10, but I'm reading spoilers on my dash and keeping up with the general outlines of things. Before the finale aired, I was starting to get curious about developments again and thought I might just wait for the last ep to air and then binge the final arc maybe over the long weekend or something. Now that I know how the season ends up, my interest in watching has plummeted and while I think it would be silly of me to say 'I'll never watch it ever' (those are very much the sort of words a person like me later eats), I have no interest in watching it any time soon. Maybe over the summer. Sometime. Eventually. Who knows?

The biggest reason to watch the last episodes is to be able to have an actual leg to stand on for complaining purposes but frankly not being up to date on canon hasn't stopped me yet, lol. I just disclaim all complaints with 'I'm one of those annoying people who bitches about developments in episodes I haven't seen' and leave it at that.  

I don't want to be like the anti's, hating the show and talking about how much I hate it but sticking around in fandom anyway, raining on everyone else's parade. It worries me that people might come across my ranty posts and think that of me. But... okay, look, I have done a lot of complaining going all the way back to season 3 and I'm up front both about what I don't like in the show and about why I'm here in the fandom anyway. I like the fandom, I like the characters, I like the universe, etc. I still want to engage in the transformative-works aspect of the fandom. And honestly I've never been a meta writer or engaged in speculation or predictions so looking only at what I produce, content-wise...whether or not I like the canon or even whether or not I'm caught up on it makes no difference. It will matter even less now that we're in the hiatus and there's no new material to speculate on in the first place.  

Finally, and most importantly, I'm really honestly not here to ruin or even put a damper on anyone else's fandom experience. I tag my negative posts as negative. I censor names when I'm talking shit about specific characters or ships. I don't go into people's inboxes and I don't even have a Twitter but if I did, I wouldn't use it to harass other users or people who work on the show. Like, I just want to sincerely love the first two seasons, the general concept, and the characters, while bemoaning the state of the show as it is now. (Also, tbh...sometimes complaining is fun and the vast number of people who leisure-complain on any number of topics is evidence enough of this phenomenon—at least I'm honest about taking pleasure in the occasional bout of this is so fucking stupid inconsequential-rage.)

As for what I actually think of what I've heard of the finale.... I've tried to write this up a couple of different ways and I think (hope) I've FINALLY distilled my thoughts.

The two things I ABSOLUTELY DID NOT WANT out of the finale were (1) for the characters to go to space and (2) a time jump of pretty much any sort. So now that those two things have happened, my brain has basically short circuited. I cannot even comprehend this. I literally don't have the words. Maybe I sound hyperbolic, but I'm just trying to explain how much disdain I have for these two plot points. I can't even fathom how anyone ever thought this would be a good idea; it's like I'm in an alternate entertainment universe. It's ludicrous.

My problem with the space launch is that it crosses the disbelief line for me. Obviously there's a lot of faux-science in this show and everyone has a different line as to what is reasonable-enough if you don't think about it too hard, and what is just absolute nonsense but, for whatever reason, this is my line. I don't know what the details were on the actual show come launch-time but just the concept of launching a space craft from a post-apocalyptic wasteland is so ridiculous that I cannot imagine a way to squint or turn my head or angle my screen so that it seems even remotely tenable. A ROCKET LAUNCH. FROM THE RUINS OF POST-NUCLEAR NEW YORK. Like ?????????????????????????. I previously described this possibility as sounding to my ears like riding a pegicorn to New Jersey to get the magic potion from Raul (s/o to my freshman year roommate for the Raul in-joke, so useful to me so many years later), and that's still how I feel.

My bigger problem is with the time jump. To put it briefly, it's a new show now. The combination of Radiation 2.0 and the time jump has cemented that.

I've felt for a while now that whatever it is I'm watching now isn't what I originally signed up to watch. I've seen a few other posts to similar effect, and even my mother (who acts as my Typical Casual Viewer one-person control group, even though quite obviously she is not representative of a typical cw viewer at all—still she's not in the fandom so she is completely untainted by what goes on in these parts)--even my mom said she thinks JRoth/the writers are basically telling a completely different story now than they were initially. I've had, and am still having, a hard time articulating exactly what makes it fundamentally different (as opposed to merely a show that's evolved over time, as long-running shows do), or even when exactly it happened. But I guess at its core the complaint is: this is supposedly a show about "the hundred," and of that group almost all have been killed or lost to the ether, and the remaining members have had their screen time chronically cut short to accommodate a growing cast of characters who have increasingly little to do with that core group or its original purpose or journey. The complaint is  partly one of frustration at the large number of delinquent deaths and the small scraps of screen time given to other alleged mains, and partly a more general annoyance at the loss of the whole meaning of the affiliation "the hundred." What does it mean to be a member of the hundred anymore? Basically nothing. And when it ceased to have meaning (by which I mean S3), the show became, in essence, a different show.

Obviously there's a counter to this whole general complaint (that the show is too bloated with characters generally and/or Grounders specifically), which I've also seen floated out there recently, which is that destroying everything on Earth will allow something more like S1 to flourish again, and a new emphasis to be placed on the core young people. To this I say, first, it's way too early to tell what S5 will be. And I'm in a particularly bad place to really engage with this argument, given how much of even the current canon I've missed. BUT I am skeptical. First, we were told S4 would feel like S1 again and IMO it most definitely has not. Second, most of the hundred are dead and/or gone—I'm not just talking about the toll among the original mains or even the original named characters, I'm talking about how 42 of the original captured teens made it out of Mt. Weather and all but 4 of them were never heard of again. So even if the show returns to caring more about, say, Monty than it does about Grounder of the Week, nothing can undo the destruction to the original concept; nothing can really solve the problem of which I'm complaining. And third, I don't think the writers think they're writing a bad show; I mean, they're the ones who brought us down this path in the first place. This, what we've seen over the past 2 years, IS JRoth's vision. Yes, sometimes showrunners make a mis-step and readjust course, and I thought perhaps that would happen for S4, but it hasn't, which means that he doesn't think S3 had the problems I think it had, which means there's no reason to think S5 will be any better than S3 or S4 were, at least from my POV.  

But anyway as I was saying—

Maybe there's been room for argument about this same show/different show question up to now; it's a fuzzy sort of concept in my mind with which I'm not entirely comfortable—I feel a bit like I'm just Complaining About Change like an old grandma, tbh. Despite how it sounds, I do want to be open-minded about others' creativity and to give the benefit of the doubt to ongoing projects/unfinished stories. Regardless, ending S4 in this way is a pretty big sign that the theory, whether or not it was right before, is right as of now. Is there any way to more effectively raze the ground and salt the Earth than to literally raze the ground and then skip ahead 6 years? I have a million problems with this large time gap, but on the top of the list is that, like everyone over the age of 25 knows, a person changes dramatically between the ages of 18 and 25, or 16 and 22, just in the normal course of events, apocalypse(s) not withstanding. The writers have given themselves carte blanche to do literally absolutely anything with these characters. Even for a show that's barely cared at all about consistency over time in pretty much any aspect, that's troubling. (Also, like, I signed up for a show about a bunch of teens in the forest, not a group of twenty-somethings...doing whatever they'll be doing in season 5. I feel a tiny bit like a promise has been broken, sorry.)

So having basically established that whatever this show used to be, it's not that anymore, I guess the question is: what is it now, and do I like it? I think this is the question every viewer basically has to ask themselves, consciously or no. For me, what I've seen the last two years is some mismash of GoT, general dystopia, repetitive story lines, action sequences, and nonsense "science." The plot is ridiculous,  the pacing is terrible, the emphases are (for my taste) in all the wrong places, the characters are shoddily drawn, and often times, it's fucking boring. It's a bad show. Things like loyalty to a few characters, interest in a few story lines, and sheer curiosity/inertia have kept me here despite it all, but at this point I feel the balance has just shifted imperceptibly the other way. Jasper's death has a lot to do with it (he was my favorite, he had the only good or even coherent story of S3, and the way his death and its aftermath were handled were so insulting one could easily justify a decision to stop watching as mini-protest), but I think that it was more the (very heavy) straw on the camel's back than anything else.

I guess the tl:dr version of this is GOODBYE BITCHES I'M DONE and yet I still can't even promise I won't be watching Season 5, like I can't predict how I'll feel in a year.

[serenagaywaterford]

19) what else. I think it irritates people that such a smart, skillful woman is so vile in some many other ways." But I mean, isn't this what makes her such a multi-layered and realistic antagonist? A lot of us have met RL women like her at some point. Which is kinda disturbing when you notice the similarities. n) "Rationally, I’m pretty sure she’s aware [that Nicole isn't hers] "Oh, she definitely does. But admitting that would mean admitting so much more: that she went to all of that trouble

20) "I really have no idea about Horace. I would guess he was a Guardian? What else can you be promoted from? Eye?" Maybe an Angel. Although they haven't mentioned those in the series yet. p) "I don’t totally doubt that they see Serena as more valuable as a source of intel/propaganda than to hold her accountable" This is within the realm of possibilities and a pretty good take. (Btw, it reminds me of 'Netgirl_y2k''s fic, heh.) r) "Of course there would be viewers praising a mob if they kill

21) Serena" Of this I have no doubt. -_- s) "Personally speaking, I don’t want Serena killed. Other characters, I hope die in painful ways. *coughfredcough*" i don't want her to die either! Tbh, if they actually gave her a violent death, it would feel like a punch in the gut, bc I'm too attached to her character already, lol. Personally, I want her to live and atone for her crimes. And maybe get a life imprisonment? (@Anon 2, I agree with you on this.) I'm still a bit cautious, bc I wanna see

22) where they're going with her arc first. As for Fred? I don't really care what happens to him, lol. t) In a way I actually feel sorry for Serena, even if she did get herself into this disaster, and she’s perpetuated it in the worse possible way she could. Like, her growing desperation and loneliness and need for connection as Gilead goes on is actually… sad?" I feel the same way about her and I mean, wasn't this the point of her arc in the last half of S2?

------

Yeah. Meeting those sorts of people IRL is a bit terrifying? Like, there are even some conservative politicians (Canadian) that I can think of that bother me cos for the most part, I feel their ideology to be despicable. But there are other things about them that are good? Like, yes, I hate you for most of your existence but I can’t say you’re totally evil cos those other things you do/say are actually really solid. It’s such a conflict. Like there was one Tory that was an EXCELLENT speaker, so fucking smart, really amazing woman--if she hadn’t had her priorities all ass-backwards. Like, GIRL, you could be doing SO MUCH GOOD for us, but you’re taking that dumbass, repressive route instead. And, I’ll have to admit, a few of the policies/bills or whatever she put forth were good for women (x) (x). It’s just....A MESS. Like... look at that POTENTIAL. But no, you have to be not nice instead (anti-abortion/anti-choice, anti-social finding, pro-capitalist, anti-environment, pro-big business, anti-harm reduction, anti-marijuana, etc).

(But then, ofc, there are women that I just flat out can’t stand or simply terrify/disgust me with their ideas. I just do not understand how they exist at all. Like what planet do they inhabit? Which is why I read Andrea Dworkin’s “Right Wing Women” and I gotta say, it makes A LOT of sense about getting into these sorts of women’s heads. And deffo gives a perspective without asking anybody to sympathise or agree with them. Cos, Dworkin is very much NOT right-wing and can’t stand them either.)

Re: Horace. I’d really like them to address Angels as such. Like, I guess they’re there but they’ve never been referred to as such. Again, it seems like THT doesn’t really want to get into the nitty gritty details.

I think... yeah. Tuello’s whole thing was implying that Serena would not be punished much, if at all, for her participation in Gilead. Which could mean either a) she’s far more valuable as a tool, or, b) the US is unaware of her role in the bombing. (Hell, we’re not even clear on her role other than she and Fred fantasised about it. And FRED suggested it to the SOJ.) OR, he could just have been lying. 

I’m sure the US has no idea what Serena’s actually been up to in Gilead, and they’re not really going to go after her for suggesting Fred attack those kids who shot at her, assaulting people or kidnapping or baby stealing--cos really... they can’t? They wouldn’t know any of that other than the babystealing cos that’s just part of the society down there. They likely know she’s a co-conspirator cos obvs she’s Fred Waterford’s outspoken, anti-feminist, riot-causing wife. She’s not some shrinking violet. 

I think a lot of people want her punished for EVERYTHING. But legally, I don’t see how she can be. The majority of those terrible things we see her do, nobody knows about other than her, June, Rita, Fred and Nick. The US/Canadian govt certainly doesn’t. Nobody knows about the execution of the kids, except Fred and those dudes that were with him. And again, her crime technically was only insinuating Fred should do something. She can’t really be put on trial for creating Gilead, because she didn’t? That was all the SOJ. Sure, she “helped write the laws”, whatever the fuck that means, lol. Not exactly a solid foundation for a war criminal charge.

The standard for war crimes is actually really high, with a big burden of proof. As much as WE may know that Serena may fit the bill here, for a democratic nation they may not have the evidence to charge her with it. (I was just watching some Nazi documentary lol). If they can prove she was behind blowing up Congress, then that is something they could use for sure.

And pretty sure the US can’t charge her with any of the things she’s done IN Gilead. You can’t just take someone from another country and charge them with like domestic abuse in yours for something they did in theirs where it’s not illegal -- unless it’s an international crime or war crime. The US, when it comes down to it, doesn’t seem to have A LOT to go on so it seems like she’d be more valuable as propaganda and intelligence, rather than making an example of her. It’s like racketeering for the mob. To them, likely Serena is a little (or more like medium) fish when they want to catch the BIG fish (aka bring down Gilead).

Non-judicial “justice” is likely the only option for Serena being punished for the things she’s done within Gilead. My personal thought is to have her suffer similarly. Like have her experience some of the things she’s done to others, via some means. Is that fair/just? Likely not technically. I mean, it gets so complicated.

But I mean, it all depends what comes out in coming seasons about Serena’s exact involvement in things she did against the law IN the USA, when it was still that.

(Yes, I mean, I feel that fic is basically the sort of thing Tuello was hinting at. And it’s really not unheard of for the first defectors to get all sorts of plea deals and such, especially if they’re valuable in other ways. The sheer number of Nazi war criminals who went on to live perfectly fine lives in the US, UK, etc is actually shocking to me. And then I think of the sorts of disgusting plea deals they make with serial killers here. Karla Homolka, I’m looking at you, you disgusting creature. She’s out there living her life all free and shit, even though she is a literal monster.)

“Tbh, if they actually gave her a violent death, it would feel like a punch in the gut, bc I'm too attached to her character already, lol. Personally, I want her to live and atone for her crimes.“

Same, same, same. I think a violent death for her would... just be so... incoherent with the show’s main themes in a way? Despite the vocal viewership’s bloodlust for her. But hey, that’s me. And like you say, a lot of this is pretty premature because we have no idea what they’re doing with her arc. My opinions could all change with more info, and depending what she does/experiences in the meantime. Who knows! What a ride lol.

“As for Fred? I don't really care what happens to him, lol.“

EXACTLY. Honestly? I don’t care about him much at all. I hate him. But as long as he doesn’t get off scott-free, I don’t really care. This story isn’t about him.

Lol, I’d like to think that was the point of her late-S2 arc... but apparently we’re in the minority for seeing that lol. Though from interviews, I believe that is what the showrunners were going for. Seems obvious to me, haha!